Video of the day: Joy Division vs Dynasty, 2006
December 15, 2010 in Media
This matchup for 1st and 2nd place was one of if not the most controversial game in the sport of professional paintball. Watch as Joy Division and San Diego Dynasty face off at NPPL Orange County in 2006 and let us know which team you think won.
H/t: John Christ
ladd said on December 15, 2010
first to comment!!! joy for sure won!!!
kim said on December 21, 2010
joy for sure won!!!
veggie said on December 15, 2010
joy won. Dynasty talked the reffs into letting them win
Paintball Alien said on December 15, 2010
Joy should have won. It appears that both Dynasty players were called out by the refs and then Cole (Dynasty) over shot the prone Joy player, then the remaining Joy player came in with gun a blazing in return.
Terry D said on December 15, 2010
A View from ref who was there on the field in the snake for that exact moments take…
Walk through of the final play
-Max comes down and shoots Alex in the snake first (In the refs eyes it was a mutual)
-Max moves for position
-Alex tries to argue for the mutual trade out with Max
-BC comes to get Max
-BC and Max Mutual (In the snake refs eyes)
-At this point only Seban is alive! What transpired next is what cost Joy the game.
-I was chasing Seban from behind (Yellow Mask Ref) to make the final call on the second run through. Seban runs the tape and shoots BC cleanly but in my eyes with intent to injure based on location of shots, number of shots, and previous game play of Seban and Joy throughout the day. The infraction caused a one for one penalty against Joy. It is fair to say that BC did have his gun pointed in the same direction as Seban but as you could clearly see on several videos Seban is clean and BC’s face and neck were covered in paint. Since there were no bodies left alive for joy to give, Dynasty got a body back which gave them the win. Throughout the day the entire reffing staff were getting complaints about Joy overshooting their players. Greg Hastings was one of the many players on the receiving end of bonus balls. As we observed Joy’s game play style, penalties were being enforced steadily and increasing throughout the day. The final overshooting penalty assessed was not without merit or good cause.
The Joy Division were an amazingly talented and coordinated group. It was a pleasure to ref such caliber of players. The difference between styles of play in USA verses European teams at that point was the risk factor. USA Teams were more willing to take risks and lose verses the calculated methodical game plans of their European counterparts. As far as body mechanics go you couldn’t find a more disciplined group.
I hope this clears up any confusion. I welcome all comments good and bad. Referees are just like everyone else we have great calls and we have bad calls. We do our best to get it right and hopefully the right team prevails. In this instance I believe the correct team won the match. Thank you for your time.
Terry D
rick said on December 17, 2010
Terry, how come you guys didnt give Brian a penalty for shooting hes gun after hes armband was removed? You write ” It is fair to say that BC did have his gun pointed in the same direction as Seban”
Sebban get shoot in hes googles and you know he didnt have those hits comming in and got them comming out of the snake.
Can you please explain that?
earl said on December 18, 2010
you fucked up paintball
earl said on December 18, 2010
joy should have won and Terry D made a mistake and ruined the sport
B said on December 26, 2010
Max wasnt on field during this incident.
Bjorn said on December 26, 2010
Wow, you fscked up big time on that one. My condolences terry D.
alex johnson said on December 15, 2010
fraige and the other dude traded for sure. cole shot the first guy to make sure. but if the ref would have noticed that cole should have been alive cole would have traded with the last dude. draw.
Max.. said on December 15, 2010
shot fraige first.
Seban overshot the shit out of BC and cost them the game.
trevor said on December 15, 2010
isnt this one of the reasons why joy left nppl?
JOY>Dynasty said on December 17, 2010
friend i know that knows Maximus told me after that tournament They would never play in that league again. Witch i completely agree with in my opinion after that BS where clearly Joy should have won.
trevor said on December 15, 2010
by the way, this was when nppl was the shit
james said on December 15, 2010
joy got screwed. I was there, it was way more bogus then the footage can even show. Its funny that Chuck Hendsch used to play on Dynasty, then after he leaves and runs the NPPL Dynasty does nothing but win no matter what the case. Strange right? Either way I love 7 man.
pylol said on December 15, 2010
what i dont understand is how a dead player can get thrown back in? If joy had no bodys to pull, shouldnt the game have ended in a stalemate? and JD getting docked penalty points for that game? i just dont see how dead players can be thrown back in a game.
John said on December 16, 2010
Joy should have won the reffing was terrible
Scott Myhren said on December 16, 2010
I think this point should’ve gotten a replay.
Seeing as the fact that this game had so much reffing in it, at the end.
- Scott.
Marc said on December 16, 2010
Terry.
Thanks for the info!
But 1 thing that makes all the talk about Joy overshooting costing the game is.
Sebban comes in as the last live player as you say, and shoot Brian Cole ( who have no armband ) But! Then Brian shoots back, and the proof of that is that Sebban have hits on hes googles comming out of the situation. ( see video ) And thats why Sebban continiue to shoot. So if you guys decided to give Joy a penalty based on overshooting, why didn brian get a penalty for shooting without a armband?
Clearly your post shows that the reffs was judging on basis of things that happend prior to this game. And to give the other team a win based on overshooting turned out to be wrong also ( see nppls statement after the event )
To Terry D said on December 16, 2010
BC got shot (visible hit in the loader etc.) while bunkering the Joy snake player. Last Joy player sees the opportunity, makes the move and shoots a player that does not signal in any way he’s hit or out, even has his marker pointed at the “live” direction. The only right move in that situation would be to makes sure he’s out, not wait for the refs to call him clean and give him a second opportunity.
If he would have ran past the Dynasty player and got shot in the back (when the refs had miraculously called the D player clean for some reason), it would have been his fault to get shot in the back. If a player does not signal his out, you shoot him, plain and simple.
Horrible call by the refs in my opinion.
Joy should have won.
PS. when a player is out and you shoot him again, does that bring him back in the game?
Tatoaddik said on February 18, 2011
He clearly got shot in the loader and Terry and the gang of others missed it (SEE VIDEO: 3 SECONDS AFTER HE COMES OVER SNAKE)!!! If the refs aren’t calling him out I would have made sure I shot so he def couldn’t be called clear… He was 100% right in shooting BC when he did. I agree with “TO Terry”!! Your dead on.
tiemenz said on December 16, 2010
leave it to NPPL to have an 8 min long match
what a shitty/boring format to play & watch
Whho??? said on December 16, 2010
Either way
Calling an overshooting penalty in the last match to the last player swinging the finals match is straight gutless
Whho??? said on December 16, 2010
Calling an overshooting penalty to the last playing swinging the finals match is straight gutless*
me said on December 16, 2010
To this day this is still a bullshit call joy got robbed. This was the end of the nppl too because after this it became a joke. guy bunkers the snake then trades that clearly states that joy already won but as every player know’s you kill your opponent when the reff is checking him. So for sebban to know for shure that he is out he made his bunker move he overshot bc yes but bc also had his gun up so that is why. JOY got robbed RIP joy
DD said on December 16, 2010
Bottom Line
- refs called the game as fair as they we’re humanly capable of
- no video replays in paintball (look at how many calls in the NFL go to replay)
- BC did what it took to give Dynasty a chance to win
- Joy no longer exist
- Lucky paintball existed for 3 months i think lol
freddie said on December 16, 2010
Joy won hands down
SmyD said on December 16, 2010
D Y NASTY WHAT
Either way said on December 16, 2010
Bc got shot in the wrist clearly visible to Seban the he rips his head off. Both should have been dead. Draw
woww said on December 19, 2010
in the wrist really u think that running and trying to figure out wat was going on that he was looking for paint, especially on his wrist come on now
bruce said on December 16, 2010
Should have just made it a draw and have them play another game. This event had a lasting (and negative) impact on the league and sport.
witness in the stands said on December 16, 2010
I was there in the grand stands at 50 snake. From what I remember Dynasty won because the last player on the field(seban) was eliminated due to a penalty (overshooting) causing the swing rule. BC hanging the flag was just for show because the swing rule was already in effect.
Then I remember Magued (sp?) wrote a big long love letter why Joy was leaving the nppl. lol.
HK said on December 16, 2010
bring paintball back to the oc fair grounds!
dan said on December 16, 2010
cole was already being called out when the final joy player came in and bonus balled him joy should have one but the final joy player deff should have been suspended
Marc said on December 17, 2010
And still Cole was still shooting without an armband, and you want to give the joy player a penalty? wow
Turk said on December 17, 2010
Are you guys blind?
8.05 in the video
Armband is taken of Brian Cole, 8.07 Brian Cole shoots back. Then the reffs pull the Joy player and let Brian hang the flag…
Anybody saying this isnt a huge scandal is corrupt.
Turk said on December 17, 2010
coorection its 6.32 and 6.34 in the video
El said on December 17, 2010
Yeah, to say anything otherwise just shows that you are blind.
Clearly should have been Joy’s game. And shooting like what Joy did at the end is a honest mistake.
rick said on December 17, 2010
It doesnt really matter if its a mistake, dude its a dead player shooting back at a live player and the reffs chose to call a overshooting. But reading what the reff here above wrote its clear they had their mind made up who to win.
Maybe the biggest scam in paintball history and it took Nppl down with it.
Kyle said on December 17, 2010
Its because they are foriegn is why they lost I remember people talking bad about Joy all day because them being foriegn
bob said on December 17, 2010
because foreign people suck
obo said on December 17, 2010
no, its because of people like you bob
chris said on December 17, 2010
So, how is it fair that a team who is cited for overshooting/unsportsman-like conduct in previous games gets a gross penality and leaves a Dynasty player alive.
I just think that it should be that if you are overshooting, you have to judge it in the context that every game is a new game. The results of a previous game should not effect your judgements of the game taking place.
I don’t disagree with the fact that he may have shot BC with the intent to “really put it on him” and should have been pulled…But to use the actions from previous games and use that in making a call in another game is just total bull.
rick said on December 17, 2010
exacty! And he really tell how it is up here. First time I heard about it and I have heard everything about this game.
And still, why the hell didnt they give Brian cole a penalty for shooting hes gun after hes armand was removed????
redakuma said on December 17, 2010
Joy got screwed what the video doesnt show was the 15 mins afterward on field meeting and a call made by someone not on the field. JOY Flat out got ripped off because of politics. NPPL Reffing as a whole from 2006 and since has been a complete JOKE!!!!
B said on December 17, 2010
After reading these comments I can’t help but wonder, do any of you actually play tournament paintball. Your all acting like you have never seen a BS call before. Reffs make bad calls all the time, some admit they made a bad call, others will come up with lame brain excuses and back pedal till the head reff is called to make a final decision, on a game he more than likely didn’t even watch. So obviously he is going to listen to the word of his reffs over two pissed off players yelling back and forth. Im not talking shit about reffs here, painball is very hard to judge and with the level of player aggression and the speed the paint flies through the air, I would say paintball merits the use of video playback more than most other sport. However in 14 years of playing paintball from D3 to Pro, I have been robbed by a bad call more times than I can remember. But thats how paintball goes, you need a lot of stars to line up to win a tournament. Your team has to be prepared with their skills, 7 guys have to show up playing their A-game, the paint has to be good, the weather has to fair well (or well enough), last but not least you need a little luck and good calls from the reffs and there is nothing you can do about the weather, the paint and especially the reffing.
marc said on December 18, 2010
that was a lot of bullshit…
This game was for the series title, 25 000 Usd and the biggest game o the year. And you dont want people to discuss it?
It wasnt like the reffs came out and said, ” sorry we made a mistake but that happend” They came out lying their asses of until those videos emergered and showed Dan Perez saying to Zinkham ” Yes, but dynasty wants the win” Its all out there buddy.
I was there watching front row said on December 18, 2010
There should have been a hand gesture for one-4-one penalty on Seban which gives the automatic hang to Dynasty since a the penalty is called on the last player. Even with no Dynasty players alive they still get the hang and the win. Good overshooting call and malicious shooting call against Seban.
Charlie said on December 18, 2010
The reffing in the NPPL was always bias. A lot of the refs were other teams. Paintball teams have relationships with other teams and the teams they like are going to have the questionable calls land on their side.
I can’t say the overshooting call on Seban was a bad call. For all intents and purposes he did overshoot BC. In the given situation, I tend to think BC brought it on himself but thats just me. Opinions aside, The events clearly went down like this. BC comes in and trades with the Joy snake player. Ref pulls them both. BC STAYS IN HIS BUNKER WITH HIS GUN UP AND SHOOTS BACK when Seban comes to stick him. Seban couldn’t really have known in that half second he had to decide if BC was alive or not. If in doubt you ALWAYS shoot the player, and lets face it BC shot at him as is clear in the video.
So any way you want to break it down even with the overshooting call BC should have drawn a penalty too. So Joy 1 player, Dynasty 0 players one for one on both sides 0 > -1.
awesome2 said on December 18, 2010
at 6:23 you can here indian john from dynasty yell from the stands “He’s coming Alex!” I know it was him because I was there.
marc said on December 18, 2010
That is 100 correct, it was just one of those times the bais went to far. I think this one game hurted the NPPL more than anything else.
On the other hand this “loss” gave Joy more credit than 5 Nppl wins
Sour said on December 18, 2010
I think you guys are also forgetting the fact that before the overshooting Alex grabbed Seban, pretty sure thats a penalty. Oh well, the game is what it is.
History said on December 19, 2010
Yes Cole’s armband is pulled and yet he aims his gun up when Seban comes running through, Seban fires off two shots at Cole and gets grabbed by Alex as he’s doing this. All things being fair Dynasty should have been penalized as well for Alex’s interference which Terry D should have seen very clearly as he was following the play. Alex should not have been still on the field and Brian should have been walking as well since his arm band was pulled. Well what’s paintball without some controversy…
ashock said on December 19, 2010
should have been a draw would have turned out better and kept joy over in the US sad horrible day for the sport.
woww said on December 19, 2010
ok so this is the reason that the sport of paintball is heading for a down-hill spiral: 1st. Dynasty lost 2nd. The second runthrough cant be called as a penalty because there is no way that he could have known that everyone was mutual from across the field while running, and terry u being the ref should have let him know, being a snake player myself i realize that there are many trade-offs but the refs and i am saying this out of respect refs do have there favorites! SHOWN IN THIS VIDEO…
john said on December 19, 2010
If you guys really wants to know the truth here it is.
Look at the above video at 6.20. You will see reff nr 28 Dan Perez (the headreff) first pulling Alex and shouting “Alex your out” Seconds after the same reff pull Brian Cole and scream to Brian and Karl “you are both out” He dont pull Karls armband.
Now look at what Dan Perez ( nr 28 )says to the ultimate Dave Zinkham 5 minutes later after he have had a talk with Brian Cole and Alex Fraige. Look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21Ao4m5zUME from 4.50 and unwards.
Now this ladys and gentlemen is corruption at its finest, 25 000 usd and a series title is doing wonders to moral.
Turk said on December 20, 2010
shit!
Tatoaddik said on February 18, 2011
WOW!! Bought and Paid for!! LOL!
big cat said on December 21, 2010
joy all the way
Toni said on December 22, 2010
Bad reffing is what turns teams away from the NPPL. They make biased and prejudiced calls.
Distressed Mushroom said on February 16, 2011
watch the slow motion at the end and you’ll see.
the first joy player shoots Cole diving over the snake and shortly after he shoots back. then the last joy players come over on that glory-run trough the refs and shoots Cole again, cause clearly the refs pull the 1st joy player even though he shot Cole first and for some reason both joy players was pulled.
complete bullshit by the refs, joy should have won.
reuben trepiccioine said on April 4, 2011
what the fuck JOY won cole got shot out ans when kaos happened he run from the refs and got the flag and when the ref at the back asked if he was out he said head ref said play on…i was there right there by the dynasty flag base …..COLE put shame on this sport by doing this act